013 – Making Money with Cashbot.ai – with Ryan Begley from Eyelevel.ai | Chatbot Tutorial

013 – Making Money with Cashbot.ai – with Ryan Begley from Eyelevel.ai

Hello, everyone, this is episode 13 and today our guest is Ryan Begley from cashbot.ai and he will tell us how Eyelevel.ai's this tool will help monetize your chatbot. I think this episode will be really interesting for many of you.

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and again it is always it's a hundred percent up to the chat bot owner alrightit's like your BOTS so you get to decide kind of what you know what you want toput in front of people on the questions that we always get are how much moneywill I make how hard is it to implement and will it piss my users on timewelcome to the chatbot podcast the place where we talk about BOTSartificial intelligence smart automation and messenger marketing we value ourtime and enjoy when technology makes our lives easier and now your host BalintPataki. Hello everyone this is episode number 13 and it's time to make somecash today's guest is Ryan from cashbot.ai which is a tool helping you monetizeyour chat BOTS with the recent changes of pricing in chatfuel and the majoringof the industry I think this episode is really interesting for many of youwithout further ado please welcome to the show Ryan Begley hi Ryanthank you for accepting my invitation and making time for this interview canyou please quickly introduce yourself for the listeners who don't know you yetI know you have a background in product management in a bi IBM and you had somehistory with the sales management for Oracle just fascinating how you made itinto this bot space and what what what was the build-up for that yes absolutelyyeah great to meet you as well my my name's Ryan Begley I'm a co-founder ofcashbot.ai my background I let's see it's it's I'm getting so old I feel likeit's starting to fade away a little bit my memory about 14 years in enterprisesoftware I started my career as in sales at Oracle working both in San Franciscoand New York I transitioned from there to a couple of startups in theenterprise app space this is sort of right when SAS as a the consumptionmodel was beginning to take off and then spentapproximately six years at IBM doing product across a number of differentbusiness units most recently Watson IOT and IBM Watsonbusiness units and this is value getter your first part experience or how doesit yeah yeah so right around to I mean I think we the first thought experiencebots have been around for so long right but for me working with BOTS andcustomers and beginning to do that automated freeform text really startedin 2014 and this is when I think that you know like the notion of Internet ofThings began to take off and you I began to work with a number of consumerelectronics appliance manufacturers that were really interested in automatingcustomer support putting some of that support into mobile apps that wouldcontrol a connected device or connected machine in what I thought was was reallysort of fascinating was this this notion of a company that had meant manufacturedwashing machines or or refrigerators for for the last 60 years but never reallyhad a relationship with their customer their real customer the people thatowned purchase those machines and had them in their house and so forth this isthe first time that they ever had an opportunity to actually engage with themand form a relationship and the really really the only way to do that at scalewas with some sort of automated freeform text which is effectively at thebeginnings of much more complex chatbots and that's really where I started toyeah I think we first started working with themand what ended up actually happening was and over the next 3-4 years I worked ona number of Chapa projects across but from with multiple different clients andacross multiple different business units and effectively got to a point where wewere working on and developing chap that were scaling up to multiplemillions of daily users daily unique users and I think that's a lot of that'skind of where where I be can begin I think we begin to really start toidentify some of the big holes and the big gaps in the ecosystem and it's justkind of how I think cash bot started to form so what were these issues on thatyou so down yes I think a few years ago the observation was made by by the youknow myself and some of the folks on the team and so on that that there was noreal off-the-shelf way to build a business if you think about chat BOTS asour conversation as a UX you have any look at it through the lens of desktopand mobile you have you have very off-the-shelf standardized methodologiesand tools and platforms to make money so if I build a build an application thatserves over the web or I build a mobile app I can plug in these platforms andbegin to monetize users or traffic or engagement or you know there's there's amillion one different tools and platforms and so forth but there wasnothing equivalent for chat or messaging and when you become familiar with chatand messaging and you begin to really sort of look at the data sets that youhave and you know you start to realize just how engaged users can be and oftenare it becomes completely enough you come it's not it's not a appropriate touse some of these all these older platforms legacy platforms that youwould use for mobile or for desktop in a chat bot so just the very notion of likeads for instance is it is different when you when you talk about chat BOTS and soI think what we started to realize at some point was that there this is a bighole and people are building these incredibleexperiences and scaling their users way up to to millions of millions of millionbut yet they there's no real easy way for them to make money and that was Ithink probably for us at least the big observation and the big real you knowsort of realization that wait there's a big hole here in the marketplace anduntil that's fixed I think our hypothesis has always beenthat you won't see the incredible innovation that you have because peoplearen't going to take as much risk and you won't see the like the five guys ina dorm room in college working night and day on on some sort of chat orconversational experience because there's no easy way to monetize and oncethat's there I think you know we're gonna see incredible and innovation inin the space okay so what you're saying is that there's less incentive forcreators to build chat BOTS because of the lack of monetization compartir forexample the last trend which were like the mobile apps they're people jumped onand developed all the apps that you could imagine yeah 100%there's the incentive structure and incentives the incentive systems are notthere today are not put in place and that's really the problem one of themain problem that we're solving for is that and I think if you if you look backand kind of if it's you know you have to kind of run you remember kind of how itall happened but when the iPhone came out mobile apps began to emerge butreally the first couple waves of mobile apps were all were all backed by bigcorporations and they were really kind of mirror images of the websites thatthey already had in production because that's all anyone really knew what to dowith the mobile app at the time and so there wasn't there wasn't it was a lotthere was minimal creativity minimal innovation and it was all sort ofenterprise focused and then when companies like AdMob began to emerge andsuddenly it became easy for you to just create somethingamazing and then stick in a hook from AdMob and you would have some some adsthat would that would display and you could you could make money once thatstarted to happen you start to see things like words with friends drawsomething and even you know like companies like a snapchat today rightthey that wouldn't exist if there wasn't a viable demonstratable business modelthat's been set up where you can monetize users and engagement and so onand those risks that people took just like you were saying are only gonnareally come when the incentive structure is there and so again that's that'sreally what we're trying to do it cash bought us just make it easy for peopleto make money you know we look at our job is very much like you build amazingbox and while you're building those box and building those chat experiences letus help you build a business behind it mm-hmm that's great that we have thislittle connection between the Facebook of Facebook the mobile apps and chatbotso we can refer back to it in terms of the ad formats and monetizationopportunities I just want to quickly say that I see chatbot started in a lot ofthe cooperation so if we talk about these apps that that are built tomonetize via ads they have kind of a different model than for example a bigcompany would say okay I need an app and I am will monetize it on my own so sofar I I see chatbots and more like they do the monetization on their own becausethey they either products or services in in the backend and funny how you reflectit to websites I see it's in a lot of chat BOTSespecially the simple ones that they're mimicking the website they're create themenu structure talked a little bit but either it links to a website or does thesame function inside messenger a hundred percent I mean I think that you knoweven if you just messengers are great example becausemessengers the the biggest biggest platform for consumers right now but ifyou just think about the form factor of a chat bot and what it and there'slimitations that messenger has implemented but it's a different UX andwith whenever you start using technology differently you also you know where youuse it changes as well and so there's all sorts of differences in the UX thataren't necessarily being explored or exploited as much as they could be and Ithink a lot of it is because the there's the innovation hasn't really gottenthere yet and there's some examples of amazing chat BOTS and and conversationalapplications out there but to a large extent you're 100% right it's a mimicit's a mirror image of a mobile app and it's you know there's just not a lot ofcreativity and it's a safe thing to do and it's a lot of enterprises that havea lot of budget and they can afford to kind of make something that's not thatgreat but you know at least check the box they now have a messenger chat botthat can they can be how say they're in this space but I think what will happenis that as monetization comes around and some of the other sort of ecosystemtools begin to emerge and get standardized upon you'll see that you'llsee sort of a I think it the the innovation will begin to lubricate andyou'll see just a sort of almost a second a second a second Gold Rush ifyou will as it pertains to chat and voice and conversation and so forthbecause there was a lot of hype in the last two years and it's kind of dyingdown and this is where I think you start to see like the the interesting thingsstart to take place in the space yeah I totally agree with these stages ofdevelopment where everyone wants it even without any reasons yep and thenwe kind of figured out how it goes and and can build quality products so whatare the best use cases so I believe it's not like local business trying to getmore prospects and leads with the chatbot but more like a utility orentertainment chat but where they kind of have a broader user base and theycould sell effectively ads to them yeah you know it's it's interesting I thinkin the last as long as I've been into this space and been working on cash botI've seen some really really interesting use cases and I think like what I wouldhave said and how I would answer that question six months ago is totallydifferent now because there's so much it's moot things move fast and there's alot of creativity it just hasn't necessarily Mencia whole ecosystem hasbeen pollinated necessarily as much as it as much as it could be at this pointbut I I think it's happening so fast I think some of the coolest use cases arejust these notions of adjacency and I can give you a good example my wife youknow she when I explained to her what cash bot does she never really got ituntil we were traveling together and she was signing up for a gym and the gymsignup process online was done through a chat bot and it asked her a number ofquestions that you would I was asked when you're gonna do a site Casa and acouple of them were like when was last time you had a gym membership what doyou like to do the most and so she's like oh it's been a year and and I loveto run and there's like when was last time you ran or yes grant consistentlywas like well it's been about six seven months and you know it kind of got allthis really interesting information and and then it plugged her into themembership and then it said okay so you at the gym thanks and she and she wentright from there X out of that that and went to Lululemon and spent $100 onworkout gear then she went to Nike and spent $200 on shoes and I go that's itright there that's cash but that bot that gym bot I mean they had thisinteresting data set that could have they could have very easily been hey youhaven't ran into in a year or six months you probably need some shoes here's a20% discount for Nike and that adjacency that context is so rich that it wouldn'thave been an ad to her I mean you know this it would have been a value-addreally it would have been like oh yes this is cool yeah absolutely I'll takethat discount and and those are the some of the use cases I think that are theare the most interesting it's not necessarily the straightforward I have aweather bot let me sell you umbrellas it's more like I have a weather bot andwhen you search for a location that's not where you where you are right nowand it's gonna rain let's offer you an umbrella because then you know you'renot going to be necessarily buy your house maybe that umbrellas willsomething that you actually would need so these kind of adjacency use caseswhere it the theme is one thing and you start to recommend products and servicesthat surround that thing are really kind of the cool use cases that we see ourmost successful that it you know they're not always home runs I think it's one ofthose things where you got to play with it and there's this is this is very mucha trial and error and test and retest and iterate iterate and iterate but thepeople I think that are most successful at monetizing big broad-based eat chatBOTS that aren't necessarily local business but are more focused onentertainment or daily messages or updates or just some sort of thing thatthat you every day you find yourself spending 45 seconds to minutes lookingat a chat pod and engaging the ones that are able to kind of create it in a verycreative way promote something as part of thatexperience people love that people absolutely love it I love this personalstory that you said and and it explained it really well so yes I remember hergoing I remember going oh wow that's a greatidea that was a good compliment after I don'tknow like one year in the business and I go yeah so what's what's reallyimportant here is that you have a relevant information and you have a goodtiming as well and then you can hook up with some third party discounts ordifferent brands that they can actually leave some money there right yeahabsolutely and I'll tell you I'll expand on this one bit because another thingthat I think we've learned in the last over you know in our wall we've been inthis space is is that there's context there's places where context is expectedfrom a user and there's also places where context is not expected and it'stotally okay to be completely out of context and those are actually theplaces where everyone is ever doing a chatbot ever should be implementing someform of monetization because you have a you have permission to do so and that'sI'll tell you the top the top three are in the persistent menu with messengerthat's that's just a it's persistent right there's no context there soeveryone should put like a surprise me button and people I'll tell you whateveryone loves pressing a button that says surprise me people will press it ahundred times in a day just keep pressing a bit and and those should bemethods to monetize because it's not going to be offensive to anyone if theypress a button like that that's that's kind of them being curious and justwanting to see what's gonna happen another really good idea that we'vestarted we believe observed and work with some of our users and customerswith is when someone subscribes if you unsubscribe from a chatbot you're evensubscribed why not show them something could potentially generate revenue foryou and it does you've used in unsubscribe so hey you know yourunsubscribe sorry to see you go let me know if you'd like to subscribe ohhere's a coupon or here's and people people click because that's a good andit doesn't offend anyone they're already gone why not why not try and use andmonetize user churn because you've already lost that customer that user andthen and then like follow-ups on broadcasts you know based on what peopledo when you broadcast you can follow it up quite quickly an hour later with somesort of offer of some sort and and those tend to have incredibly highclick-through and and and sort of subsequent action rates I love bothideas and also regarding the broadcasts I want to touch up on our Facebook'spromotional rules because you say okay we we do promotion on Facebook parts andand sell ads effectively there are some limitations by the Facebook platform sothis is called the 24 hour rule and basically you suggest they use thebuttons or when you send out the broadcast they have a follow up messageregarding their engagement right right right yeah it's I think it's one it'sone non content relevant or every 24 hours you can only send one message thatit hasn't been provoked in some way and that's if sonís is subscribed in someway yeah so I think some of the best use cases to to work within those thoseguidelines are to ask questions so a broadcast that doesn't necessarily tellyou something but asks you something is is something that it is that's just theevidence is quite clear that people will engage with the question much more thana statement and when people engage then you've just gotten permission tosentence them to say something else and people love answering questions withchatbots mean is is this is I think fairly if you have you worked in a spacefor for any to any amount of time I think you'll probably observe that aquestion is always a great way to engage because it's it's it's just fun peoplefor some reason really enjoy sharing with chatbots when questions are askedand so when you send out broadcasts think about ways to to frame thatinformation in the in the context of a question as opposed to a statement andthat will will typically promote some sort of follow-on an activity and oncethat activity or action is taken you have now permission to say somethingelse and and it's really I think those are likely engaging experiences or theones where every day you're getting some message and that message yeah it's justa little a little snippet of your day but 45 seconds every day you'reanswering a trivia question alors you're you saying what your moods like or whatyou ate or just sharing a little bit of information it becomes very repetitiveand habit-forming and those are I think are the GAR that chat experienced anabsence of work that have the most success by far the ones that become partof your day yeah and definitely you have a lot more opportunities to monetize soit's not like the one big broadcast very where you have to make sales yeah it'smore like a constant interaction and okay let's see if that that works ohmaybe that's 100 percent all right so what are the things that you you canmonetize with cash bond so you have some sort of inventory where people can pickup their products or how does this work yes so we so we have a free so we have afree product that's there today and this is kind of the first thing that we didand in its Amazon affiliates and Amazon affiliates is Amazon Associates is theiraffiliate program and you can you can drop products into your chat experienceand you can pick which regions of the world you want these products to be fromso that you know we basically allow you to to to work within the AmazonAssociates Program in any region of the world that it's in and this is totallyfree and we don't it's we don't charge and it's something between you andAmazon we just made that really simple for people to do and that was probablythe that was the first product I think that made was just simple patient greattry create product agents and implement put them into your chat experiences andand we have some folks that are incredibly successful at this we don'tknow how much they make because we don't charge and we don't have anything to dowith the Commission but we know we can tell how many recommendations they makeevery day and we can we can kind of get a sense that the click throughs and soon and we've done enough user interviews to know that there's some folks outthere they're making a good amount of money using this as a tool the secondthing that we are working on with folks is simple bot - bot referrals so therethere are chat bots out there that have lots of users and those users areinteresting to other chat BOTS and brands and what we what we do is we puttogether it's essentially the same underlying tech but there's a lot moresecurity behind it and from the ground up we built in a way to prevent ormonitor click fraud but really if you think about it like you have a chat botand if you have a million weekly users and I have a chat bot and let's say I'mPepsi I need I want I want a free flowing supply of users that are highhigh lifetime value and ultimately I want it to be as low the lowestacquisition cost as possible and so we made it incredibly easy for you torecommend or endorse the pepsi chatbot and will pay you by the click and soevery time somebody a user comes along and you say hey check out this pepsichatbot they'll clicks they get pushed right over into the the pepsi chat podthey're now an acquired user and you'll get paid every time that button clicksand it's for us you know it we think it's a great it's a great creativeproduct because it actually solves a couple problems that are pretty bigmonetization for one but also user acquisition and discovery is another bigproblem for for chat bot owners and so this is a sort of a cheap way toguarantee to guarantee that you're getting a chatbot user the biggest Ithink friction point in user acquisition after you know you can run likemessenger ads and so forth but there's no guarantee that they're a chatbot userso this is probably the only way that you can target an actual chat bot usertoday and not only that they're incredibly engaged because they'reactually clicking on an endorsement button so they're not they're not just achat bot user they're actively participating and engaging in a chat botthat day and so then I'm gonna press that button so these are really highquality users and it's kind of a win-win for everyone because you don't lose ityou're just you're just expanding sort of the the ecosystem almost andintroducing other chat experiences to your users and so that's that that isdefinitely like a very successful thing that we've been working on and andanyone can do it you just you know what what we asked for is that you just sharea little bit about your audience because we do work with brands and we do workwith you know paying customers that are interested in acquiring types of usersin different segments and different geographies that speak differentlanguages and so forth so we we have to have sort of a somewhat of a sense of ofwho the who your audience is but we can targetif you have 5000 UK users and you have a million users total we could targetthose 5,000 you can and provide that endorsement to them so we're capable ofdoing that just we need to have some place to start but but yeah this is agreat a great product as well for people to monetize aside from that wedefinitely have have run tests and have some some early experiments going withall the other sort of monetization methods that you can think of such astraditional ads you know eyeballs on an ad unit action base so let me go out anddownload something or let me sign up for something or you know there's there'slots of different things that we we've worked on and and again it is alwaysit's a hundred percent up to the chat bot owner right it's like you're a botso you get to decide kind of what you know what you want to put in front ofpeople on the questions that we always get are how much money will I make howhard is it to implement and will it piss my users off and you know it's totallyup to you on question 3 how you want to implement so you know ideally it won'tpiss anyone off because you're totally in charge you can implement it howeveryou want okay let's do reflect on and your last question actually is a goodquestion I want to ask it later so I just wanted to say one of my first chatBOTS was a gift finder there for like 2016 Christmas and I placed every singleAmazon link alone manually right so yeah I would have appreciated your yoursolution back then and another thing is yeah it really addresses that point thatthe user is engaged with the chat bot it's logged in with a messenger and youdon't have to worry about this extra pop-ups that you should be logged in orwhatever they they knew this ecosystem how it works and then you you start offwith the higher level of well engagement or yeah you just know that the users theusers are are by default people that are already engaged and interested inchatbots and and you know it's not like clickbait where we're saying like youknow where you're not advertising compared it's not you you know the theimplementations that we typically seek and and the calls to action and so onare like chat with Pepsi chat what you know and it's very explicit becausePepsi doesn't want a user that doesn't know it's a chat bot and you don't wantto implement something that's gonna mislead your users so everyone's sort ofon the same team and everyone wants the same outcomes and so ultimately yeah youget you acquire great users i'm easier cheaper and they're and they'retypically more engaged okay so regarding the targeting i thinkit's very easy when it comes to the basic targeting what facebook providesus anyway so so just like gender or time zone language and so on do you do sortof force not not the best word but do you suggest your users to actively savemore information or or does that cash bot automatically somehow than the useris plugged in or how does that work yet he achieve better targeting yeah so sothe targeting like you said the the basic targeting that we can do will allstart by saying that while facebook does Facebook and other platforms do providesort of a basic entry level package of the user data and it's typically theFacebook it's going to be like an ID first name last name gendertimezone and and locale I think are the kind of the basics that that alone isreally all we we need just to be able to target and do and per you know it's itsgender a gender agen region are kind of the bigthree things that people care about when they target and we can make someinferences just based on first name last name and timezone and so forthwhat what we do I think that's but that's helpful is that we don't youdon't need to target so you have a chatbot and you implement this in thepersistent menu for instance we'll fill it with the appropriate units based onwhatever parameters we have set up and you don't have to really do anything soyou would just for instance if you have you built build a chap off from scratchand it's some sort of Python based based platform that you that you built fromthe ground up it's just a post endpoint that you would implement somewhere or inthe persistent menu for this in this case so a user interacts with thatendpoint somehow and it's just gonna post the basic per user attributes andthen it's going to respond with some sort of unit that's appropriate and wedo that actually even for Amazon so it's with ant with Amazon you have if youhave a bot and you have global users you can't necessarily show a television thatcan be sold in India and the UK and the USA across the world you have to kind ofpick a locale that you of the program that you're in so ultimately if there'sno intelligence behind it what we're what we what would be doing what wouldbe happening is you just be showing a TV to people in India and I'm TV the sameTV to someone in the UK and if someone buys it if it's not registered in theright locale you're not going to get any certain Commission so we'll we'realready doing that in the background and showing televisions that are appropriatefor the locale of the user and you don't you don't even have to do anything forus to do that so we're also even the free product we're doing targeting wherea television is only going to get showed to the user if they're in a locale butthat is client with their with their policieswhen to answer your question do we encourage users to get more informationI mean I think it's helpful and we can set up some of those custom experiencesif we do have that and we definitely are working with some folks that have aricher data set and I can give you a good example you know it like a chatbotthat has that that is sort of an event planner or event or event reminder youknow a bachelor party we you know they'll track how many bachelor partiesare happening just this weekend and those people will get a specialized sortof offer or unit based on that bachelor party or bachelorette party or abirthday party or an anniversary so these are sort of contextual things thatthat were that we're starting to get into and have been getting into in thepast over the past four or five months but in general there's enough interestin this space and I think there's enough there's enough demand from a lot of thebrands and so forth to engage with users just based on the on the base level userattributes like gender region and so forth and that's what and we helped withthat out of the box and I guess the lastthing I'll say is that you has a chatbot owner don't really have to work ontargeting as part of the implementation as long as you just implemented it theAPI or a chat fuel you plug it into the JSON plugin will take care of the restokay so if I if I have an idea okay I want to place an ad after some sort ofan interaction and let's let's use the Amazon example how do i define that whatsort of products should be showcased is it based on what you have an idea aboutthe conversation somehow or I have to place okay I need the television andthen you place it locally the best option like if it's in India UK or USAyou so so the way it works today is that youyou create what we call product agents and the agent is really just think of itlike a basket of things that you're gonna show and so then you implement itand for this example let's just say you implement it in the persistent menu andit says like deal the day or surprise me so user clicks and those products thatyou had already predefined using keywords and you can you can curate andyou can so you know down select or are delete and so you have 20 TVs and it'snot implemented in the persistent menu and a user hit surprise me and thosethose products you know those products are gonna come up either in a list in acarousel or a card and again that's totally up to you and we have a toolthat makes it all very easy to kind of auto preform at that and then thoseproducts will show now what will happen oftentimes is if that user is in Indiaand you're registered for a locale in the UK or rather that TV is onlyavailable in the UK it roll in the background shut will will switch outthat that television that you've selected with another television that'sactually applicable to someone in India so that if that person bought it you canstill get the credit and that's that's kind of a thing that's that's kind of aninteresting thing that we're doing in the background already is is it'shelping people just making sure that the telev it but the product is available inthe in the place that the user is and that's there you know if you have asuccessful chat bot you have probably have if 25 countries that your users arein there's no way that you can set up a chat bot that shows products that areavailable in all those countries so we're already doing that to the you knowwe're doing it as much as we can some some countries amazon just isn'tavailable but but anywhere it is available we're gonna always show like atelevision france that's that's available to purchase andsomething that you would get credit for if that person bought and you would getthe Commission and so on through the exciting so you dynamically load the ursand the images into cars and lists absolutely well so you yeah actually youcan you select if it's a list or a carousel and you can create a customcall to action all it's all very pre-formatted in our tool and then itjust it will populate into messenger or any other platform that you're workingon now it how about web views did you think about it or is it better this waywhat do you mean like like web Guzman when they would open up the in theinside the messenger and they would have more opportunity do you have a betterdesign for example choosing options already in in the web or scrolling andso on so what what he typically are not limited to the messengers platformslimitations yeah well I guess if you're asking can the end user of the chat botthemselves it's get in through a webview or are you talking aboutwhat would the would our endorsements or units display in a webview yes in thesecond one so yeah absolutely absolutely we have we have people that are usingjust would that have chat bots that are displayed on mobile web mobile apps iOSand Android we have customers that are using or promoting things on telegram noquestion kick line I'm probably forgetting a couple right now but butyet and then outside and then outside oh SMS as well and then so yeah so whetheryou I mean you know what how it manifests itself is completely iscompletely at your discretion we're compatible across multiple differentmessaging apps and then also just you know the UI can be can beany anything you really want okay I love that you mentioned Chatfield integrationI saw that you make it really easy for people to plug it in with a cash pot andwe know that Chatfield had some limitations on their free plansso is there any cool story now that people try to implement with jet fuel ordid you notice I actually a number of increase about visible recent changeswith the paid put the the paid plan changes that happen yeah yeah I thinkwhat's interesting to me about that is that it really demonstrates I think howhow in need of monetization tools there are and the in the marketplace becauseyou had folks that had built up the big highly engaged audiences for free andthen suddenly when you had to pay the bills it became very difficult and Imean there was a I mean the the you know that the it was it was a veryinteresting thing I think to a lot to witness because it definitely validatedI think our our view that this is a problem space that needs to be solvedand you know definitely I think if anything what we saw was that a lot ofthe folks that we were working withmonetization became a big big big a very serious topic for them because theycould no longer exist without having having a strategy figured out I think wealso exert an extent because there were a lot of folks that suddenly just didn'thave their BOTS anymore I think some of the more successful folks had had kindof thought of this in advance and had kind of built those experiences in itand because it's you know one thing I think about chatlots that people don't realize is that it's not like a light switch where youcan just start making money immediately you have to sort of play around with itand find out what works and you're in your experience and your and yourchatbot and then iterate and begin to kind of build upon things that aresuccessful and everyone has a different audience everyone has a differentaudience everyone has a different experience and so what works for somefolks doesn't necessarily work for others I think one of the things for meand for us it catch but what we're really trying to do is just help educatewhat works and document it and without giving away everyone's secrets becausethere are folks that don't want to share because they're doing well and theydon't want other people to try and do the same thing but for the most probablyyou know just kind of practices an end share that and share kind of what welearned over the last two years yeah thank you for that pointing it out andalso I want to go into a slightly different topic so we mostly concentrateon messenger BOTS but I'm really excited about the bots voice and was interfacesand how voice applications will be monetized so what is your take on thatyeah I think so so it's interesting I think that voice this is this is a spacethat I that I have a lot of experience in and it's it's interesting I thinkit's to go back to the mobile app analogy I think and the desktop and youhave you know kind of a hype cycle I think with voicedespite the penetration that you see from Alexa and Google and you know theyou have Cortana and you have just a number of other manufacturers that arenow implementing Alexa and and Google into their experiences and it's it'sdefinitely like it's it's it's definitely like the next thefrontier I don't know that the space in it you know our observations I think isthat the space hasn't matured to the point where monetization is implicitlyrequired I think it's gonna be there probably in a year or so I think thatthe ecosystem services are just beginning to emerge and you've had somecompanies that have bowed out and you had some some great companies that makeit really easy to create and I think probably in the next 12 months you'regonna start to see some of the ecosystem services emerge and get becomestandardized and things like monetization are gonna happen I think ifwithout giving away too much I think it's gonna it's gonna turn out verysimilar to the way that podcasts are you know how do you monetize a podcastultimately like you know you eat you have a podcast and you probably if youwant a montage you're probably gonna sell ads and how do you reach thatpeople that how do you how do you get into a network where people can find youand and present you with ads that you can verbally dictate to your audience Ithink a lot of that can be very similar to the way voices because the theinnovation and the scale comes from the longtail it comes from the big developercommunity that's out the people that want to experiment and those are thepeople that need to get paid like yourself with podcast and so you knowsomeone like you if you're working on a lot and Alexis skill you're not gonnakeep doing it for a couple years unless there's like an easy way for you tostart making some money and I think that's kind of how it's gonna happen Ithink a lot of people are under the impression that it's gonna be like anAlexa voice is gonna be telling you to buy soap for some right you know itknows that you need so that I don't I think it's gonna be a lot lessintelligent and a lot more manual but it's gonna be have a look and feel verysimilar I think to radio radio ads or podcast endorsements we're a brain youknow if a brand will find you and you'll and you will endorse their productsyeah that makes total sense and that's why the app creators have also greatercontrol over what's what's coming out the ecosystem is fueled by people likeyourself very much so the people that are out there doing things and in aren'tnecessarily working with big companies out of the box or maybe you know it'sit's and those are the people that need to have an easy way to make money tokeep to keep keep it to stay invested and I think that could be a wholeanother episode with Google search and invoice and and monetization there andAlexa recommendations or how you can rank your product over there I want toask if you can share us with some numbers like how many bots are therethat he you work with or is there is there any sort of like click numbers youcould share with us just a little bit to have a better yeah sure so I mean wework with we work with several hundred active bots that are making anywherebetween 10 recommend endorsements or recommendations a day two to tenthousand a day and and that's across the the free products and the paid productsthe click-through rates are very determined by the sophistication and thequality of the implementation itself is you know I work with we work with peoplethat have click-through rates that are 60% and above but those are folks thatthat that won't give you an endorsement until you've almost asked for it nowthere's also folks that just blast out stuff constantly and they don't reallyknow they're not as concerned with click-throughs and so it kind of ring itkind of ranges up and down and it really is dependent on the implementation Iwill say that I think that the UX and just theexperience of messaging and chat is is at this point a much more invitingexperience and people tend to have the click-through rates I think aretypically higher just in general but that's not anything I think that we'redoing it cash by the way it's really up to the developer and how they're able toimplement but certainly are targeting Helms yeah we make on on the order ofanywhere between four hundred to a million plus endorsements a month and wepayout approximately ten to twelve thousand dollars every couple of weeksto developers that are part of our part of our paid you know sponsored programas opposed to the free product we're with Amazon we don't know how muchpeople make through that because we don't have anything to do with if it'scompletely up to them and it's between them and Amazon and I'll say that themost money we've ever paid out is five thousand dollars for a weekend for twodays of work on a developer who who implemented a paid product and they gotso many clicks that they got paid five thousand bucks for two days thank youthat sounds amazing and I bet you would love to know more about the Amazonnumbers right the business absolutely I mean I think you know we we it's it'ssort of one of those things where I think it's almost too complicated for usto even get involved in that and and also it's a great free service and it'snot that big of a deal for us to be able to to make it very simple to use and soyeah you you're right but I would love to be able to know more about that soit's something that I guess that user interviews are the only way we can goabout getting that information yeah probablyby the way I would love to have if if you can recommend someone who uses cashbar I would love to make another interviewwith their experience so yeah of someone who like had a really goodimplementation like you talked about like how they they can properly ask andhave 60% of clicks great for the head it sounds good I would love to hear thatyeah yeah Debra Debra Kay is a great example of someone Debbie if you knowher and Singapore she's she's run some campaign and she liked the wizard thebest / she she she she had incredible click-through rates and she knows whatshe's doing and let's see the bot is emoji bot oryeah she has I'm ochobot I have yes LG bought in gift bot and she ran acampaign for us that was uh I think it's I think it's probably still there andit's it's out of sight yeah it's really it's really impressive what she was ableto to do in terms of her the KPIs okay thank you I will ask her out and postcast yeah a quick question about the future of cash pot so you have this freemodel with Amazon you have the paid model which is kind of getting tractionnow with recommending baths what's coming up in the next one two years yeahso we're so in the next six months we're gonna be rolling out a totally newinterface that makes it much easier to a load up your Amazon products be there'sgoing to be more than just Amazon so we're gonna add other affiliatesFlipkart Alibaba and a handful of other product affiliates so that people cansign up for all of them and have much a much more global reach with withproducts we're gonna begin to experiment and try out other affiliate programs andkeep all of that free and and that is really just to sort of build out theuser base and make it more of a like I can't do without this tool on the paidside that put the things that we control end to end orgoing to continue to do bot recommendations bot referrals botendorsements to drive traffic between various BOTS and we're definitely goingto begin to start to experiment with much more sophisticated types of unitsthemselves as opposed to one car maybe five to ten cards or some of the thingsthat we're working on with some of the brands so imagine like an endorsementpopping up in your chap out for Pepsi but instead of one card or three a 10card carousel that incents you to scroll to the right so just getting a lot morecreative with the with the with the UX itself is something that you're gonnastart seeing a lot more from us and that's I think where we're reallyexcited is just being able to implement things that people are like wow that'sexciting wow this is I've never seen anything like thatgifts and so on we're working on some pretty cool things with some of thebrands and then and just a much more I think in general a much more complete UIUX so for the developers out there the ability you know to go in and get a muchmore granular view and how much money you're making how much money you'reexpected to make I think ultimately what our goal is is in the next three to fourmonths to be able to just provide you with a consistent view and to how muchmoney you're gonna make so that you don't really even have to think about itas much and you just know alright I'm gonna make $400 a month by putting thisthere and I don't have to worry about it anymore cashbox who's gonna pay meforeigner bucks every month and that's gonna be that and then we'll begin tostart introducing ways to make a little bit more overtime but but that's reallywhat we want to do is try and become a very consistent source of revenue forpeople oh I bet this how much you're gonna make visual representation isgoing to be a success for your businesses oh yeah right now actuallyand just enter in some basic parameters about your BAget a get a get a quick estimate of how much money we think you can make Ronthank you very much for your time if there is any secret knowledge you stillwant to share with us that's the time now otherwise I just thank you and yousee how cash pot develops in the future yeah I would just encourage thank youvery much for the chance to chat and I enjoyed it a bit and for the folks thatare listening definitely visit our visit our site and get in contact with us ifthere's if there's some things that you need or things you want or the thingsthat you have questions without we're we're all very available and them andand are very much interested in helping everyone build a business thank you verymuch and the links will be in the show notes oh gosh path that's a awesome yeahthank you thanks all right I'm pretty excitedabout the opportunities that cachepot the TI brings to us as always you canfind the show notes at chat bar tutorial that come for a slash podcast if youhave any questions that you want me or my guests to answer on future episodesjust visit chat bar tutorial com4 slash pass 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A recent case study by Cashbot.ai can be found here: https://chatbotslife.com/case-study-cashbot-ai-chatfuel-turn-experience-based-chatbot-into-a-profit-machine-1a8a3a91ec21


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